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Notes for 19th Giveth Governance Meeting

Jan 25th, 2018


Attending: * Griff - Distracted by Jitsi being bad, otherwise going well * Satya - Excited for the meeting * Kay - helps with notes * RJ - No distractions going well * Alex - excited for meeting * Edu - new time works better * Arthur - Jitsi sucks * Vojtech - excited to talk about exchange rate * Oz - dropped in later

Logistics: Facilitator Griff, Secretary Arthur

Toggle off: Nobody


  • Payment
  • Legal
  • Exchange rate
  • Triple Checking
  • Quarterly meetup: barcelona
  • Increase online visibility

Point 1

Tension: People did not get paid for some time. Understandable, but needs to be resolved asap. Who is responsible? Proposal: Somebody takes lead on payouts to reduce confusion and speedup process Clarifying questions: Q: How do we get paid? A: Preferably with our own system, the important part is clarity.


  • Arthur: Once first payment happens, next one will be smoother. Getting exchange rate locked down is important. Open to somebody leading this as long as it's not a new role.
  • Kay: Governance circle could potentially oversee this. We need somebody to look over this process. A lack of clarity is leading to issues. Possibly Jen as the budget manager? Getting the exchange rate locked will be helpful.
  • Oz: Griff has spent the last few meetings bringing this tension up and offered to subsidize the lateness. This is also a system problem and a long term solution needs to be reached. Dogfooding implies some sacrifice.
  • Vojtech: Problem is clear, fix asap. Likes idea of lead.
  • RJ: Nothing to add.
  • Griff: Loans short term are a realistic solution as the milestones will pay out. We can't have out books be off, we have a strong level of transparency and it's important to make the correct moods. We can't go to fast we need to move slow moving to fast is how shit gets fucked in crypto. Even after Arthurs amazing contribution needs more time. Has been taking lead position so far. Personal assistant to Griff should help. Frustrated that the next steps are not being read or done. Quality control even on the language of the milestones is important.
  • Edu: Nothing to add, delay is annoying
  • Alex: Double checking is good. If everybody wants a point of contact or will volunteer to do it. Lack of payments is frustrating but we require a lot of testing.

Amend and clarify:

  • The issue is in communication. Satya wants more organization imposed on the process. If there is a road map other people can help. If Alex can take lead on the communication that would be good. Result: Approved

Point 2

Tension: Legal - One of the comments we hear the most is "I want to donate but we don't get tax cuts." People with ether also want tax cuts. We don't necesarily need a legal strategy now but we need to start the research.

Proposal: Setup a campaign/milestone to start contacting charity oriented law firm. Satya leads reasearch.

Clarifying questions: Alex - Where would this be? What county would be used? Arthur - to be a platform provider, what aspects do we need to structure for a legal entity? - thats the question really...

  • Vojtech - Do you propose to create a circle or have somebody take lead on this?
  • Satya - Will take lead, this could be in governance. Lets just start soon.
  • Alex - Donations to Giveth or other entities?
  • Both


  • Griff - Reaction round - Griff has been the lead so far - Avoid groups that do not take ether. Support issues will kill the system. If we just deal with groups that only deal with ether this is less of an issue. Our initial user base likes the aspect of legitimization on blockchain instead of forming a traditional legal entity. Eventually this will become a little easier.

    • 1 - Too early to approach charities that cant' use ether
    • 2 - Being a blockchain based entity is cool to our users (ethereum community)
    • 3 - We are not hurting for donations
    • 4 - Tax write offs are possible for campaigns in our system

    Vojtech - It makes sense for us or part of Giveth to become a legal entity for two reasons

    • 1 - Receive donations from those who want the tax cut
    • 2 - It helps with paying people, takes the pressure from them onto the legal entity where the administrative and legal work is economy of scale
  • Edu - understands where Griff is coming from but agrees with Vojtech

  • RJ - doesn't hurt to research this. Just one circle can become a legal entity.

  • Oz - Research is good. We can be a blockchain entity with other legal solutions. The legal questions are a big deal right now. The tech side and the community building are two seperate issues. Everybody will need to be hand held, our own team needs to be already. Supports research.

  • Arthur - If a circle decided they want legal research no opposition. Legal entity makes not much sense for Social Coding circle.

  • Alex - Research option. Help us maintain non-legal entity status. Terms of service, not financial, legal advice.

  • Kay - Interesting idea to research. Maybe if there's a way to connect to traditional systems but being legitimized by blockchain is impressive and it would be hard to lose that.

  • This whole space, even a blockchain is not a legal entity. There are positives to not being a legal entity. If a donation ends up at a legal charity they should still be able to get the tax cut. This shouldn't really be a problem for our space.

Amend and clarify: Satya will ask Grace to start research. No other immediate actions.

Result: Approved


Tension: Different exchange rates was main source of confusion in milestone creation. Proposal: Use either spreadsheet or for expenses. Going forward all milestones will be calculated with the spreadsheet

Clarifying questions: Alex : What's the reason to use coinbase's API?


  • Vojtech - Other APIs did not work well. Want to use cryptocompare API actually.

  • Alex - uses indeed API. Likes cryptocompare API. There should be a single automated way of doing things.

  • Arthur - ethprice uses cryptocompare API. Crosstalk. Would like to move on.

  • Griff - Unimportant as long as there's a single point of truth. There are a lot of random dates so using the old strategy works best for historical payouts, the ones in the future will be done using the spreadsheet.

  • Kay - Found a milestone to make the numbers work right. There is a milestone in that needs to be accepted and then reviewed. Not opposed to using the sheet. Would suggest that every Friday we just make a row. Uniformity in price oracles are critical.

  • Satya - Working on integrating API into milestone creation in the DApp. Auto conversion will be a good thing. Other projects using Giveth will have the same problem. leaving

  • Edu - Agrees with proposal. API should be a developer choice.

Amend and clarify:

  • Spreadsheet will stay the same & use coinbase api. Regular rewards & reward dao up until 1/25 will use Any expenses that still need to be added will use spreadsheet. everything created from 1/26 going forward will use the spreadsheet. - The payment calculation spreadsheet will be made public.

Result: Approved


Tension: Triple checking. QU/QC important. Spreadsheet for QA is available. Milestone creation sucked Proposal: Use triple checking spreadsheet with minor changes until we get it right the first time all the way through.

Clarifying questions:

  • Oz - Would like to see spreadsheet
  • Griff does explanation of spreadsheet
  • Kay - Who puts the milestones here - Griff does
  • Arthur - What do you need to not worry ... too long

Reactions: * Kay - In favor of checking this as much as possible. * Vojtech - Very important to check * Arthur - Two or three times to get it right before releasing grip on checking * Oz - Agrees we need a process, maybe it could be streamlined a little bit. Maybe this could be moved into the DApp circle. * Alex - Agree's that a confirmed work through could be done more than once. When there's a coulpe times done we can agree to stop checking. * Edu - Important to check. Spreadsheet is fine. * RJ - Especially the first few times this needs to be checked. Delays are appropriate. We should have minimum inconsistencies. Likes the spreadsheet triple check.

Amend and clarify:

  • Alex rushes to rescue and takes responsibility. Will manage spreadsheet and do approvals. Result: Approved


Tension: Not entirely clear just yet now who will pay for what & whom

Proposal: I propose the 4 circles pay for travel expenses (Governance will cover food and lodge), as this was foreseen in the budget by (at least?) product & communications. To me it is logical we cover all costs for people in our circle who we need there. Each circle lead adds names to join meeting to list. After decision circle members can lobby that their expenses be covered. Arthur takes on proposal.

Clarifying questions: * Oz - Appreciate the gesture, but makes no sense if proposer is not here * Vojtech - are we talking in general and are dates fixed * griff 4th and 5th


  • Griff - Unlikes unfairness around ticket costs. Campaign lead should decide on payment of airfare. Food and Lodging made sure by governance circle. Travel costs depend on situational factors, so has to be judged every time.
  • Kay - agree with griff
  • Oz - Campaigns should be responsible for their members being able to attend a meeting. Supports proposal.
  • Edu - Usually fine because standard location Barcelona is near. Vojtech - Sees problem connected with split in circles. Missing mission of meetup! Circles should pay, depending on purpose of meeting.
  • RJ - Agrees. Main point of havong circles Alex - Airfare can be very restrictive, so support is needed. Circles should be responsible. Selective choice preferred.
  • Griff - added: Coordination cost around food \& lodging high, so stays with governance. Airfare will be covered by circles.

Amend and clarify: Governance circles covers food and lodging. Circles cover airfare. Left out person can lobby circles to have expenses paid.

Result: Approved

Point6 tabled


  1. Payments need to be figured out, Alex is taking lead
  2. Legal research will be attacked by Satya and Grace3. Different exchange rates - from not on use the spreadsheet QA/QC covered by Alex
  3. Governance circles covers food and lodging. Circles cover airfare. Left out person can lobby circles to have expenses paid.
  4. Discussion on online visibility has been tabled

Griff - great meeting. appreciate patience. RJ - Long but important decisions excite Edu - Long but awesome. Important points Alex - Great meeting, got a lot covered. Roadmap forthcoming. Overwhelmed by emotion. Vojtech - Long painful but needed Oz - Thanks, code looks good Kay - Great meeting! How many digits after the decimal can a milestone take(Answer: no limit)? Arthur - Good meeting super smooth

End of meeting: 7.45 pm